What the Mold Industry Doesn't Want You to Know With Michael Feldstein

Episode Highlights With Michael

• What he learned from years in working on mold remediation
• When he learned that the mold industry had a serious integrity problem 
• Mold remediation - what does this actually mean
• What companies are doing wrong that leaves families sicker than before
• Lessons learned from 8 years of doing mold testing
• The Mold Rush (or Mold is Gold) in the industry
• At its core, mold remediation is demolition with more precaution
• What the actual best testing is and which ones are not as accurate
• Why some people are impacted more by mold than others 
• The way we build today is one of the biggest culprits with mold
• Mold is not a problem outside where you have nature’s air scrubber: sunshine, wind and trees
• The sandwich only gets mold when you put it in tupperware. Your home is a tupperware
• Air scrubbers vs air purifiers and why this matters

Resources Mentioned

• Jaspr air scrubber - this link gives a discount
• Under sink waterproof mat
• Thermal imaging camera 
• Moisture meter

BONCHARGE
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LMNT
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Transcript

1068: What the Mold Industry Doesn't Want You to Know With Michael Feldstein


Child: Welcome to my mommy’s podcast!
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Katie:  Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I'm Katie from wellnessmama.com. And I'm so excited to be back with Mike Feldstein, who is the founder of JASPR and a former disaster restoration specialist who has spent years inside the most contaminated buildings learning what works and what doesn't, and realizing that there was a simple blind spot, which is that indoor air is the hidden variable that is connected to so many things.
He now teaches people how to upgrade their living spaces in easy ways. And in this one, we talk about the dirty secrets of the mold industry that they don't want you to know from his hands-on experience. And I love that he presents a balanced perspective of when it really is important to be aware and to be concerned and to treat things cautiously. And also when sometimes remediation is not done correctly, costs more than it should, and what to look out for.
And he gives some really important context around this conversation. I know that mold is the buzzword right now. He said within the industry, they even have the term the mold rush or mold is gold because of how much money can be made from people who have had mold exposure. But he gives some examples and practical discussion on why it doesn't always have to be that expensive.
I always learn so much from Mike. Let's join him now.  Mike, welcome back. I am so excited to chat with you again. I always learn so much, and you are such a joy. Welcome back. 
Mike: Thank you. It's been a little bit. 
Katie: It has been, and lots of life changes since then, and you are sitting by this gorgeous lake. For anybody who's not watching, it's absolutely beautiful. I love that we're getting a nature influence.
And in this episode, I wanna kind of really dive deep for about 20 minutes on a topic I get a lot of questions about, and I'm guessing you get even more questions about, which is mold, and specifically the mold industry. Because I hear from so many people who either suspect or verify mold, and then run into endless options and conflicting opinions about what to actually do about that.
And I've seen people have such long, frustrating roads trying to even figure out what to do. And I know you've spent years in some really contaminated buildings helping with this hands-on. I would love your background on when did you realize the industry had some serious integrity problems, and what do people get wrong when they're in that phase of trying to figure out what to do?
Mike: So I got into the mold space like 2012, and I've been in it since in a, in a number of different ways. I've remediated a lot of moldy buildings and moldy homes, so everything from, like, your kitchen leak, attic mold removal, bathroom mold, roof leaks, but then also hurricane and flood cleanup where there's, like, whole home, like, big building floods and hurricanes where there's mold.
So I've dealt with the private sector, the insurance sector, the, like, small isolated mold event versus the, the flood where six stories of a building is moldy. So I've seen a lot of, of mold and damage, dealt with a lot of insurance companies, dealt with a lot of testing companies. I also did testing for a handful of years, about eight years.
So we would go into people's homes either if they were sick and didn't know why, or if they moved into a new home and they were just wanted some peace of mind. Like, they got a home inspection and then they also wanted a mold test to make sure the home was safe for their families to move in. So I got to see a lot of the testing side and the remediation side.
And it's funny 'cause this was back in 2012 and there was two sayings. This is when I started to kinda catch on to things, but one of them was the mold rush, and the other one is mold is gold. And unlike gold, mold is a renewable resource. It keeps coming back. There's more humidity, there's more rain, so it's, it's a lot better from the restoration contractor's perspective than gold 'cause the mold keeps coming back.
And why they call it the, the mold rush or mold is gold is because if you think... Let's say you wanted to remodel or renovate a bathroom in your home. The demo process for, like, a small bathroom would not be more than $2,000. It's probably about $1,000 just to pull out your vanity, yank out a shower, toss it in a bin.
Not a big deal. Sub two grand for sure. Now, if there's a couple... If there, there could be a little bit of mold that could be six inches by six inches, and that could all of a sudden be a 10 or a $15,000 job. And at its core, mold remediation is demolition with more precaution. So if in a normal demolition of a bathroom, I mean, most contractors aren't doing very good dust control anyway.
Really, like, a good demolition would almost be very similar to a mold remediation anyway, just to protect everybody from the dust and the building materials. And when you start smashing and demolishing things, these fibers are, and particles are very small. So- What, let's say there's a bit of mold. How you would normally deal with it is you would isolate the bathroom off.
So you use, like, six millimeters of poly, and you'd, you'd create a seal. You'd close off the vents, you'd close off any airflow, so that's like an isolated room. Same thing, if it's, like, in the corner of a room, then you would build the three walls to isolate and contain that area. So you use poly to contain it, then you would have an air scrubber inside the room, either venting out a window or just scrubbing the air in the space, and then you'd have another air scrubber or two in the ambient part of the house, just to be extra precautious.
And then you go into that contaminated space, you do all your normal demo. You would double bag everything, then you take those double bags out of the home, and then you would wipe everything down with an antimicrobial cleaning agent. But basically, it was demolition plus an antimicrobial cleaning. And you're talking about a, a normal demo that might take a few hours.
You're adding an extra three or four hours of prep, having your scrubbers running for a couple days, and then another three or four hours of cleaning. So really, the price should be, like, maybe 50% more, maybe double. Not five to seven times. A lot of it was very, very Hollywood. I would see people doing, like, 20, $30,000 mold jobs.
They'd be done in half a day, and they would tell the guys, "Just, like, stay in the containment, be on your phone, do whatever. But like, we need you to stay in there and play with the tools for a couple days." And because it's a contained area, the homeowner has no idea what's happening in that area. So I... You could see a $3,000 mold removal quote and a $30,000 mold removal quote.
Sometimes you pay for what you get, but often you just pay for how good they are at selling fear. So if you think about it from a business perspective of a contractor or demolition company, when they realized doing mold removal was a way better business than regular construction and demolishing, you don't have to do tiles, you don't have to do painting and finishing.
Nobody's ever mad at their demolition contractor. If they're mad, you just demo a little bit more. Whereas, like, nobody's happy with their tile guy or their plumber or their kitchen finishes. So from an opportunistic standpoint, it was a very attractive business for people to get into, so I started to realize it.
Now, they thought it was the mold rush in 2012. It's 10 times more, 50 times more prevalent now than it is then. I often say mold is the new Lyme. Like, notice nobody really talks about Lyme disease anymore. There's always this, like, sort of hidden thing that's the catch-all for the sickness that no one can pinpoint, and right now it's mold. So you're probably seeing from your perspective how much more mold questions you're getting.
There's not more mold now than there was 10 years ago, but there's more mold awareness, and that's kind of what's driving everything. And then because of that, the functional medicine doctors are getting a huge inbound inquiries of people contacting saying, "Hey, I suspect mold. I got mold. I want a mold detox."
And they don't really know much about mold. Maybe they took a course. Maybe the remediation contractor came in, maybe a testing company. And then if you look at the mold testing industry, there's a handful of different tests. There's aerosol tests, there's dust tests, there's ERMI. Now there's a lot of blood work and mycotoxin and urine analysis.
And almost every type of test in the home sense is either designed to skew positive or skew negative. So if you're the restoration contractor or you would love something that skews positive so you, there's more work for you. If you're... I'm just looking at, I'm not talking about people's personal ethics, I'm just looking at, like, the industry incentives.
If you're an insurance company, you want things that skew negative so you're not doing more cleanup work. If you're a functional medicine doctor, you want it to skew positive so you can sell a detox protocol. Now, we're not talking about people's ethics. We're just, like, looking at the incentives that are baked into how the industry is formed.
So when I would go into a house to test for mold, by the way, the best testing by far is a human. It's actually a mold dog. A mold canine is amazing. There's mold-sniffing dogs. But once I tested 100 homes for mold, any good mold inspector, I could walk around a home for five or six minutes, use a thermal camera a little bit, and a hun- like 99% of the time, I would know what the situation is before any of the lab work, because you start to smell it and feel it in your lungs.
You could really, you become attuned to the mold. And mold is an allergen, so, like, it's like pollen, right? Like, some people aren't impacted at all by allergens, and for other people, like, it's bedridden, they're congested, they can't sleep, they have chronic fatigue, dry eyes. It's like a huge problem for their quality of life.
It deeply impacts their immune system. So I'll take a pause for a second just to check in with you for a moment. But the, the first time I realized it was basically, like, 2012 when I started to see the different types of tests and how the restoration industry kinda looks at things. 
Katie: I love that. This is why I was so excited to talk to you specifically about this, because sadly I've seen people I know personally be financially devastated by mold and by being told that they needed $100,000-plus remediation.
They had to replace their entire HVAC, they had to replace all the drywall in the house, they had to throw away all their things. And I feel like y- your message is one of hope, that at least it's not always gonna be required to go to that extreme, even if there's mold identified. And I think you're right, like, we have more awareness about this, and when you have a hammer, everything is a nail.
And certainly in the, the health world, there's so much talk about mold. But I'd love to, like, double-click on a couple things and ask some specific follow-up questions that I get a lot. The first would be, like, how do we get accurate testing? 'Cause I know I've personally, just living in Florida, done several kinds, and they all came back negative, and I've done testing on my body, and it also came back negative.
And I realized I was probably more paranoid about the potential of mold than the actuality of mold in my space. But so maybe a little bit more on testing. I agree with you on people and mold dogs. I haven't done the mold dog yet, but I've now had multiple people in my house who had very extreme mold exposure in the past who did not have a problem in my house, and that actually gave me more peace of mind than any of the testing did.
So talking about m- accurate testing, and then is it a fact or a myth that if you have identified mold in your house, do you need to get rid of everything that's not certain hard surfaces in your house, or are there cases where it's more nuanced? And also, what's the difference between-
Mike:  It's very nuanced.
Katie: Okay. And then also- 
Mike: Sorry, go ahead 
Katie:... what's the difference between an air scrubber and an air filter? 'Cause I feel like some people may not be familiar with the difference. 
Mike: Okay, let's go through it. And before I jump into that, and we, this could be a whole other episode another time. We started, we were actually talking about this a little bit before we, we hit record today.
But the biggest issue here is how we're building homes today, how we're building schools, how we're building buildings. Since the '70s and the energy efficiency crisis, the building codes changed. We started building homes very, very tight so they can't breathe. And ultimately, you notice mold is not a problem outside where you have nature's air scrubber, the sun, the wind, the trees, the rain.
Mold is an indoor problem. The mold is pissed off, and it's trying to get back outside. You trapped it in a little bit of, in, in an airtight building. Like, the sandwich only gets mold when you put it in the Tupperware. So your home is like a little Tupperware, and people's homes are built way too tight.
The materials aren't great. The filtration isn't great. The way they breathe sucks. You know, they're building homes all on aesthetic and speed and cheap builder-ready homes and apartments and condos, and there's not enough... Like, if there's any mission that I have in my life, it is to educate people how to build better homes, better buildings, better schools, and better communities.
More sustainable, more healthy. You know, the, you... I, I've met all, like, top architects and great builders. The HVAC system, which is the lungs of your home, is the last thing that they consider. People are dropping 50, 60, 70K per bathroom, hundreds of thousands on kitchens, and then they get a $20,000 HVAC system.
So I just wanted to, like, level set there that, yes, it's nuanced, but this is a construction problem, and it's gonna take a long time to rebuild all the homes. The good things is all these old homes don't last very long, so within 100 years, we could actually rebuild almost all the homes in the country.
So if you're not thinking on a personal human scale of life, like, it's not that long to, like, really, like, we can have huge trees and new homes in a, in 100 years or less, and meaningfully better in 20 and 30 years. So I'm pretty excited about that. Now, the nuance in how people can know. So 95-plus percent of people, if you go and get a mold test, what happens is you go to the functional medicine doctor and they're like, "Let's do a urine test and a blood test."
And it's being thought of as very black and white. So you do the test. 95% of people, it's gonna say you have the mold. You have high levels of mold, you have mycotoxins. And then they send an inspector to your home, and then they, sometimes they play Whack-A-Mole. They start cutting holes or they run an air test.
But the most common is they do a mycotoxin urine test. Everybody's got 'em. Then they go to your home, they do an air test. Everybody's got the mold. Then they start telling you you need to gut everything, and they look for any little bit of moisture. Humans are not that fragile. Like, a little bit of humidity...
And the reason is, so the way you're supposed to do mold testing in a home, you do an outdoor test and you do an- you do multiple indoor tests, maybe one per 1,000 square feet or so is pretty general,  you know, in your bedroom, in a bathroom, in the common areas. And the outdoor test is called the control sample because you wanna see what the mold levels are outside.
So if I test the air outside, it's a beautiful day, there's gonna be thousands or tens of thousands of mold spores. If it's rained in the last couple days, millions of mold spores inside and outside. So it's the same thing. If you get your blood work done and you look for heavy metals, there's not gonna be zero.
Like, there's... So it's being looked at as black and white, and then they're like... So people, and it's kinda sad really because when people are, like, having gut issues or whatever else and then they're like, "I got the mold," they're sad and there's gonna be a process and a detox and it's expensive, but they're kind of excited 'cause they think they found the thing that's been making them sick.
Now, like, so basically just to level set, mold is everywhere. It's inside, it's outside, it's omnipresent. It's, it's fungi. It's microbial air spores, especially after it's rained, especially in a humid environment. When I did my mold training like 10, 12 years ago, I can't remember if it's 48 hours or 72 hours, but you're not supposed to test for mold unless it's been a couple of days since it's rained.
No company follows that protocol. How could you? Like, if it rained the day before, the customer's not gonna pay you. You still gotta pay your people. So it's, like, quite a, a difficult thing to navigate. A lot of companies aren't even doing control samples. And if, if I test your house for mold at 8:00 AM, at 3:00 PM, and then the next day in the evening, we're gonna have wildly different results on those three tests.
Wildly different. Based on, I've tested the mold in a home 30 minutes apart, and they were wildly different. Just by the direction of the wind, your mold results can te- can really change. So what really matters is, like, do you have a water damage situation? Does it smell musty? Does it smell moldy? The other problem is humans have gotten so far away from just trusting our bodies, and it's a hard thing to be like, "Trust your body more."
That's not the answer people are looking for, but it's important to know that this is, like, really nuanced. A thorough visual inspection is really important. Where are you typically gonna find mold? In an attic, if your bathroom vents are venting up there, your range hood's venting up there. Under kitchen sinks, under bathroom sinks.
I actually think everybody... You can get under your ba- you can get these drip pans, they're stainless steel, 'cause eventually every sink is gonna fail and drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, and then you don't notice it for a while. So everybody should have, like, a stainless steel drip pan under all of their sinks to catch that leak.
'Cause you know the leak and you know the drip is coming at some point, so instead of it going into your porous under-the-sink area where it's not breathing... And, you know, maybe once a month, have a little mold check. Check under the sinks, check near your showers. But really it's like, if you didn't have a water damage situation, it's not as a big of a deal.
The Stachybotrys is specifically, like, that's like the black mold that's the most harmful. If you see... And I, I don't... I wanna balance this because mold is se- severe, and it really can make people very sick. So the purpose is not to downplay mold, but it's to make people wary, because a little bit... Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars gutting your home, moving into some other apartment or house that might be more moldy than your actual home.
Like, I always would tell friends, "If you ever wanna break a lease, call me, I'll come over and find the mold." I've never not found the mold somewhere. It's a house. Like, it's wear and tear. It's gonna have some mold somewhere. We're gonna find some moisture, in the HVAC, in the return. It's life. So it's the hard answer, and I wish I could give, like, a do this one test situation.
But I would say really,  a moisture meter. Like, having a, an inspector come over who's very thorough with a thermal camera, or even buying your own thermal camera for a few hundred dollars. And if you suspect moisture or a roof leak, like, look for it. You know? The smell is significant. If you can kinda trust the smell and the d- the, the ease of breath. And then it also comes down to, like also like, I will say also AI is getting pretty damn good, Gemini and stuff, at looking at your mold results.
Like use the thinking mode, give it your home results, give it your blood work. Because it'll be like, how is this compared to average? 'Cause now that thousands of people are uploading stuff all the time, the tests are really designed to be quite alarming a lot of the time. So not every species of mold is a problem.
Also like if you have no symptoms- This is a good thing. If everyone in your home feels healthy… If you track your sleep but you feel energized every day but your Oura or your Whoop says you don't sleep good but you think you sleep good, I say ignore it if you feel good and you trust your, your energy is good.
Like, learning to trust yourself is so important. The difference between scrubbers and air purifiers, what I will say is when I was developing Jaspr,  which is an air scrubber, as I said, my background was in, in mold and flood and fire. We would use these big machines called air scrubbers to clean up mold.
Basically, it's a, it's a giant industrial powerful air purifier, so it's like five to 10 times the power and effectiveness of a little air purifier. So a scrubber and an air purifier are the same. Just like a, a pickup truck and a Honda and a small sedan, they're both cars, but like one's designed to move seven people and pull your boat and one's like a little coupe.
So an air scrubber is basically just like an industrial grade air purifier. They both filter the air, but a scrubber does... An air purifier is kind of like what it sounds like. It's kind of cute. It's incremental. You know, it might make the air like 10% or 15% cleaner. So if they say it covers 1,000 or 1,500 square feet, what does that really mean?
It's probably only getting the air marginally cleaner, whereas a scrubber is like really scrubbing the air. And if you have dust in your home, your air is probably not very clean. Dust is a symptom of poor air. When I was developing Jaspr in 2018, I moved, I rented an, I rented a house when I was traveling.
Moved into it, it was super moldy. And I mean visible black mold on the windows, under the windows. It stunk musty. I was getting exercise-induced asthma. I was wheezing. I was having breathing issues. I was having skin issues. So was my wife, Rachel. Luckily we had no kids yet. But then I started doing all my testing for the air purifiers and scrubbers in the basement.
This is when I lived up in Canada. And when I had like a bunch of different purifiers running just in the basement, within 24 to 48 hours, and I tested the air for mold before and after, all the mold was like gone, like 99% cleaner, and all my symptoms were gone. And like if you think about your water, whether you're getting your well water or your city water, it's gonna have too much bacteria or too much chlorine or too much fluoride, so you filter your water.
Air is the same. If you're getting your air from outside, it's gonna have construction debris and rubber from tires and mold spores and pollution and all the stuff. Water is easier 'cause it comes in through a singular pipe, so you just filter it at the point of use, either at your sink, at your shower, whole home.
Air is sneakier, 'cause it comes in through your doors, your windows, your attics, your cracks, your vents, all that stuff. So to me, scrubbing your air, as essential as cleaning your home or filtering your water. Indoor air is five to 10 times dirtier than outdoor air consistently, 'cause your home can't breathe.
It's got no sun. Like, when the river is flowing and when the water is moving, it's usually pretty clean. But when the pond is still, that's when we get the algae and the bacteria, and the water gets really sick, and the mosquitoes and all that. So wind is awesome, but your home is built so tight that there's no airflow, so your home is like a stuck pond where nothing's moving.
So that's why we have all these breathing issues. When you're scrubbing your air and improving your ventilation,  your air is gonna be 95, 99% cleaner, much closer to the way it is outside. So yeah, scrubber is basically a badass air purifier. Jaspr in particular, the goal was to create the world's first air scrubber that's beautiful and quiet, and has a lifetime warranty, and is designed for ease of use. But it's nuanced, so there's no simple, easy answer here.
But I would say if you do suspect a mold issue, don't worry about offending the contractor or wasting their time. Get at least three quotes. Also, put the voice memos on your phone and run it so you're listening to their entire  pitch and their spiel and their rant. Get at least three quotes. Then take all three of the, their quotes and the transcripts, which you can copy off your phone in one click, and dump those all into AI and ask it to look for consistencies, inconsistencies, who do you trust more.
And if all three of them are saying wildly different stuff, get another quote. Find... And often the mold restoration guy, he's gonna bring the thermal camera and take the measurements and, and really look around. So often those guys are way more experienced than the testers. This is a guy who did both of those things.
The tester's just, like, coming in, doing his thing, "Give me my thousand or 2 or $3,000. Here is your report. See you later." The contractor's gonna have to see you through the remediation, and it's not gonna be a good look for them. You know, they don't wanna kill their reputation and get bad reviews. So don't be afraid to get at least three quotes, and if the, if you're getting inconsistent information, get more quotes.
This is a really big deal. You shouldn't have to gut your whole home and rip it up. If you have, if they, if they... And sometimes if you're suspecting a bunch of mold, remove that piece of drywall. Okay, it's gonna be 1,500 bucks. Remove the drywall, put it back in paint. You only need to treat the affected area.
Now, if you have high level of Stachybotrys, off the charts, you're really sick. Like, even in a f- basically you're looking at it as almost like a flood. So you, yes, you wanna, you wanna scrub your HVAC system and disinfect it, and you can absolutely do duct cleaning. You might have to replace a section of it, but usually there's not black mold in your HVAC system.
If there is, replace it, change the filters, scrub the HVAC. There's absolutely environmental cleansing for your ductwork. Treat the areas that are affected. With water damage, you wanna go two feet beyond where you see water. You don't have to demo and gut the whole home. Yes, sometimes, like, porous things, blankets, carpets, couches, bedding.
If there was a significant amount of physical black mold, we can see it, there's Stachybotrys in the test, you're sick, yes, the porous things should go. But with HEPA vacuuming and steam cleaning, that- Restoration companies do. We restore things. So it's nuanced. I wish I could give you a black and white answer.
This is not medical advice. But this is just a bunch of stuff that I've observed over the years, but getting a bunch of different contractors' opinions and throwing their, what they said too, and even asking AI, like, what are some good questions to ask? What are some follow-up questions? You know, ask for references of people whose stuff that they've done.
This is what I got for you. 
Katie: I love that. This is why you always provide such helpful and balanced context, I feel like. Like, not, like, dissuading people when there is a legitimate reason to be aware and to be cautious of how you navigate, and also not making everything a fear-based worst case scenario. And I will say, I have Jasprs all throughout my home, and I'm actually gonna get more, just 'cause I use it in my bedroom as a sound machine, and I love it on level two for sleeping, so I'm gonna get it for all my kids' bedrooms as well.
But I'll put my link in the show notes for any of you guys listening on the go. And what I love most about what you just said too is that, like, it kinda brought balance to the idea, like, not every even identified mold exposure is a worst case scenario. You don't need to burn your house down. And I love what you said.
You said, "Humans are not that fragile," and I would add, but if you think you are, then you're right. Because if you assume
Mike: a hundred percent. 
Kaite: you're going to get sick, you will prove yourself right. But I love that you have been through mold, recovered. You have now helped many people identify it, recover with balance, and not burning their house to the ground.
So I always love your perspective on this. And then we're gonna get to do another episode. You guys stay tuned for the next episode, which will be about another unidentified thing that people don't take seriously enough
Mike: Ooh
Katie:  ... that I'm very excited... But yes, before we wrap up. 
Mike: One more, one more, one more thing on, on, on...
Two things. Number one, just to double click on what you're saying about if you think you're fragile, you are. All the best healers I know, they've been healing for 15 years since I met them. It's like they heal, and then they have a new illness, and that's actually why they're such good healers, 'cause they're always healing.
But they've identified their state as, like, a healer, and they're constantly healing something new. Instead of their identity being like, "I'm gonna be the most vital and the most optimal," they're always trying to cure a sickness, and they always create something new. And on the mold front, like, this is where I ha- like, this is where I'm really excited about Jaspr and about air scrubbers, because when I lived in a home that was moldy and making me sick, a handful of scrubbers- You put the Jasprs in, like if you test your house for mold, airborne, and then, and like how is mold getting you?
You're not eating it or drinking it. Well, you could get it through your food, but generally you're breathing it. Same with pollen and allergens. So people are spending like tens, 30, 40 grand a year on food, several thousand dollars a year on water, and air, which you breathe like 17,000 liters of a day, they're not investing anything in their clean air, and it's just wild to me.
So, you know, Jaspr's not a cheap product, but for four Jasprs you're like a little over three grand. For two Jasprs, you're under $2,000. If you get your air test done, and then you put Jasprs in, and you test your air again, there'll be almost no airborne mold at all. So it's just like if you test your water for chlorine, and then you get a chlorine filter, and then there's no more chlorine.
So if mold and pollen and allergens are an air issue, when you thoroughly are constantly filtering and cleaning your air, your air is not such a problem anymore. And before you go and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on remediation, you could spend a few thousand dollars on cleaning your air, and then, you know, about $400 per year per machine.
So for $4 a day after you've bought your initial air scrubbers, you and your family are gonna have clean air for life. It's like a Fiji bottle. So to me, I'm like screaming from the rooftops, not from a place of sales. You can go buy a really ugly air scrubber that will clean the air just as good as Jaspr.
We're for the person who wants something beautiful and quiet and effective. But like scrubbing your air really works. So if you test your air... Also, we have a really good return policy, so if you don't find that your sleep and your breathing is wildly improved, we'll take it back and we actually, we buy back the Jaspr for full price, and we cover the cost of shipping too.
So, it's a real, like as someone who was struggling in the nuance, I tried to, to create a solution that would cover most use cases. So if you don't have physical black mold that you're trying to remediate, no matter what, your indoor air is dirty. Your particles, your pollution, your VOCs are high, and homes are built poorly.
So you either need to build a brand-new custom home from the ground up with new materials and ventilation and filtration, but the fact that you can spend a few thousand dollars and be scrubbing your air for your whole home, it's kind of a no-brainer solution for me. And I didn't have the confidence to say that before, but I sure do now.
And we're gonna do another episode on, on fragrances and synthetic fragrances, and at the end of that, we're gonna give the best deal on Jasprs of all time. So stay tuned for the second episode. 
Katie:I love that. I appreciate your integrity on that. I will say, like, I have bought Jasprs. I have not, like, just requested them for free in exchange for things.
I, I have bought these for my home. I love them. I will be buying more actually on that exact deal that you're offering to my audience, and I appreciate that, and I really just wanna leave with that echoing what you said of, like, st- not being the professional patient, finding the actual information, cutting through the noise, and operating from a place of not I'm even healing, but I am vital, I am resilient, and I am thriving.
So I love the voice that you bring to this. Like he said, stay tuned. Our next episode is gonna get to dive into synthetic fragrances. For this episode, thank you so much for listening.